Sophie Thatcher hasn’t slept properly in weeks. Between wrapping the final season of cult horror series Yellowjackets and being apart of Nicolas Winding Refn’s first feature in adecade, she’s barely had achance to come up for air. Her Private Hell is the latest in arun that’s established Thatcher as one of horror’s most compelling new faces – from squaring off against Hugh Grant in Heretic to playing avengeful robot girlfriend in Companion. And yet her performance as Elle – atortured movie star chasing her missing father through amisty metropolis – is unlike anything she’s done before.
LWLies: How are things withyou?
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Thatcher: Ibought ahouse in upstate New York, so I’ve been trying to finalise furnishing it. Honestly, I’ve just been sleeping for three days straight. That final stretch of Yellowjackets was so exhausting. But the movie, yeah… super strange.
In the bestway.
Yeah, Ifeel like I’ve done movies that have been pretty well received. So to have something so polarising, I’m like, ‘Whoa! Ishould just not look at myphone.’
What was your first encounter with Nicolas Winding Refn – did the reality match your expectation?
I think all of us agree he was really intimidating at first. Iwent to his place in Silver Lake. We’re just sitting at the kitchen counter in this beautifully modern house, and he’s asking me the most personal questions. Ilearnt that his process was just getting to know me. It felt vulnerable. It felt like we had to be completely open.
What kinds of questions?
I remember him asking alot about my relationship with the internet. It wasn’t like any other meeting I’ve ever had. We started talking about this German film called Der Todesking. We bonded over that and other films by the director [Jörg Buttgereit]. So after that first meeting, Iwas like, ‘Nailed it!’, because our taste was so aligned. As soon as we started talking music, Iknew we were on the same page, and it’s rare to find that. He’s amusic-head. He’s ahuge cinephile. Then in the second meeting, Itried to win him over. Ispent alot of money on aCannibal Holocaust vinyl.
Oh wow!
The movie is problematic, but the soundtrack… Our first bonding was over Italian composers and Pino Donaggio, who ended up doing the score. We were just talking about our love for these luscious scores set against asometimes abrasive, harshmovie.
What went through your head the moment you finished reading the script for the firsttime?
Confusion, but excitement. In that second meeting, [Refn] was like, ‘These are the bare bones. Anything can happen.’ So there was asense of freedom. When you read ascript, alot of the time you think that’s it. But to read this script knowing that things would change felt much more abstract. We had so many calls trying to piece things together, because alot of the movie is [Elle’s] interpretation. But after getting the insight into [Refn] dying for, like, 20minutes – which is an insane story – and then hearing about his relationship with his daughter, it all clicked. It felt like Ihad aheavy task, but Iwas ready forit.
Can you tell me more about Refn dying for 20minutes?
[Laughs.] He said it was like 20 or 25minutes. He had ableeding heart. It sounds like something out of abook. When he was telling me about it, Ithought he was messing with me. He told me that Tom Cruise brought him back to life. Iwas like, ‘No way, really?’ But no – he does that alot.
It’s such an important insight into the movie because that’s the heart of it. It’s about his relationship with his daughter, and that’s so complicated. While we were shooting, Iwas brought into the family. [Refn] felt like my dad. Iwas alone in Copenhagen. Ibecame best friends with his daughter. They’re one of the most beautiful families, and surprisingly very normal, considering how weird Nicis.
Have you ever experienced anything like that on afilm before?
Not at all. He made apoint of having dinner with us at least three times aweek. We would always go to the same restaurant in Copenhagen, this Italian spot, and most of the time he would just ask us about what we think of celebrity rumours. It was really light, and we needed that when we were working onthis.
What did that teach you about Refn as adirector?
There was always sensitivity – he’s very in tune with how people are feeling. You could see that with his daughters, with me on set. He could see if Iwas off in asecond. That felt scary because usually I’m like, ‘Oh, Ican just get over it in asecond.’ But no, he would sit with me. It felt like avery personal, sensitive and vulnerable relationship that Ihadn’t had before. Just the effort of him bringing me into his family was really beautiful. It gave me the trust to do this very strange project.
You’ve said there came apoint where you stopped trying to understand the film and just surrendered to it. When did that shift happen?
I think midway – around us going to the party, because that’s when the film starts to turn into something else. Ithink that’s the switch within [Elle’s] character, and Ithink that was already naturally happening within me too. Iwas gaining more confidence as shooting went on. Iwas always thinking about the Elle and Dominique fight scene at the end. Ihad no idea if it was going to change. The ending was always changing – it went through like three different versions, and it was around the party scene when [Refn] changed it, to where Iget the gloves and turn into… but Idon’t even want to say that because that’s so up for interpretation, and even my views of the ending change.
You’ve mentioned Kenneth Anger as an influence on the film. What other films or artworks were you drawing on while shooting?
There’s alot of older Japanese films – Imight actually have to get back to you on the one film I’m thinking about. Alot of it was music. Ikeep talking about the band with Martin Rev and Alan Vega, Suicide, as aconnecting force for the last part of the movie. Iwas listening to Suicide all the time. It’s this schizophrenic synth music. Ilove listening to that chaos because it’s afun world to live in. That really inspired Elle’s arc towards the end. From those first meetings it was clear, music is number one. [Refn] saw that in me and Isaw that in him. Pretty much every day after set, we would send each other songs to be like, ‘This is where I’m at. This is where you’re at.’ It could be totally unrelated, he would send me Abba and I’d be like, ‘Hell, yeah!’
Music is ahuge part of your life as well – do you have aspirations to write and direct in the future?
Absolutely. Ilive with my twin, and we’ve been making short films basically every night – they’re so silly. We made agoofy re-enactment of Her Private Hell and it’s just me with glasses, and then me against the wall screaming.
I would love to seethat.
My twin and Ido alot of work together. It’s been really inspiring, being in aweird cabin house with artists working every day. I’m very excited for this new chapter.
There are some amazing looks in this film – how much input did you have in the creative process behind costume and make-up?
I had alot. No matter what, Ialways want asay, especially with costume, because if the costume is off then it’s avery vulnerable thing. I’m just so drawn to certain decades of styling. Nic’s very much arock’n’roll guy, and Elle felt like ablank slate as acharacter. Iwas trying to make her less modern so she’d blend into this unreality of worlds – Charles is in akind of Sixtes timeline. It was mostly based on the music we were sending each other. So it was alot of seventies glam rock – even the Candyfloss make-up felt almost like David Bowie. It all just felt larger thanlife.
I think that element of camp, mixed with glamour, was perfectly found within that genre. Iwas very drawn to that red leather jacket. It was really fun. Our costume designer, Jane, was amazing. She’d lay out all these beautiful options. It was kind of adream. Her whole approach was, ‘What would make you feel the best?’ And for me, it was that leather. Throughout this press cycle, I’ve been wearing leather. Iwore the leather Louis Vuitton corset look to Cannes. And Iwore leather to the LA screening première. It’s fun to do that for press. Why not be camp and lean into Kenneth Anger?
So much of the film hinges on asingle expression or pose – what was it like projecting emotion thatway?
That’s my favourite kind of acting, honestly. I’ve never had adirector where Iwouldn’t know when he’d call cut. He would just keep going, especially for the establishment of my character in the bedroom. Iunleashed whatever mask Ihad on, and it was just me. Because of the style of filmmaking, it felt like the most I’d ever been seen. Iwanted to be seen by him, and Iwanted to be seen by the camera, and that’s exactly how Elle feels. The dialogue is there, but it’s all within expression.
Filming largely in order, day to day, did you find that you and Elle started blurring together, the same way the film blurs reality into this dreamy state?
Absolutely. Towards the end, Iwas building myself into amanic state by listening to that chaotic music. My sleep was really off. It felt so amazing to unleash because so much of the movie was so incredibly still and stylised. At that point, it wasn’t about the dialogue or anything, just that feeling of wanting…
… catharsis?
Yeah, that. There was alot of repression. Ifeel like I’m always playing characters that are playing against something. That’s what’s most interesting to me. It’s those character arcs. In the beginning, Ifelt that sense of loneliness. Iwas in Copenhagen, it took me about amonth or so to feel like family and to get to the truth of everything. Every job is like that, especially when you’re going to adifferent country, and it was areally long shoot. It was three and ahalf months, so there was adaunting feeling and Ithink Elle was naturally feeling it.