It was around episode five or six of Succession season three that it became clear that Matthew Macfadyen, who plays Tom Wambsgans, the beaten-down husband of Sarah Snook’s Shiv Roy, was emerging as an MVP. It’s an ever-changing title in a series with heavyweights like Brian Cox and Jeremy Strong, but by that point we’d seen Macfadyen—often used as comic relief in duets with Nicholas Braun’s Cousin Greg or as a punching bag for Shiv—unlock new levels of his performance as Tom sank to new depths.
Faced with the prospect of going to jail as the family’s fall guy for a company scandal, Macfadyen traded dark laughs for something more unsettling as Tom obsessed over going to prison and attempted to regain some measure of control. Take the creepy way he forced a baby conversation with Shiv—as “something to look forward to” before he goes to prison—by admitting that he’s kept tabs on her menstruation cycle. Or his prescient rejection of Kendall’s offer to team up, because Logan always gets his way. And of course, that time he gave Greg a Roman history lesson by telling the tale of Nero, the Roman emperor who killed his wife and married his servant.
At the end of last night’s thrilling finale, “All the Bells Say,” Tom finally struck back and cast his lot with Logan, betraying Shiv in the process. As the credits rolled, the very last character anyone expected to end the season with the upper hand was holding all the cards. It’s a thrilling cap on superb work from Macfadyen, and an extremely satisfying conclusion to Tom’s season 3 arc. GQ talked to Macfadyen the morning after the finale about filming that final scene, why Tom did what he did, and his highlights from season 3.
GQ: When did you learn about this twist?
Matthew McFadyen: Quite early on. I had a chat with Jesse where he vaguely talked about what might happen, but I sort of put it out of my head. I take each episode as it comes, so the writers may change their minds and I wasn’t going to be precious about an ending that I got attached to. I had a rough idea of how it might end up but I was fully prepared for it to change.
When, from your reading of the episode at least, is the moment Tom really makes the decision?
There’s a scene [in the previous episode] with Shiv in their quarters when they’re playing a sexy game and she implies that she doesn’t love him. Something is very off there. Then the following day she talks about freezing their babies. But then maybe it’s a subconscious decision. We all have that thing ticking away in our brains and you make a decision but the decision might have been made months before, and you just don’t know it yet. It’s interesting playing with that. He’s had a rough ride. And also there’s an element where he thinks that she wasn’t relieved when she learned he wasn’t going to prison. There’s a collection of incremental things that he’s noticed with Shiv that’s made him think I have to look after myself. I can’t rely on anybody. My wife doesn’t trust and believe in me.
In a way, Tom’s been building to this since their wedding in season one.
That’s right [laughs]. He’s manfully taken a lot—she suggested an open marriage on their wedding night. He’s put up with a lot, Tom. Kendall tried to turn him to his side, and he’s been genuinely terrified about the prospect of going to prison. That was a very, very real threat.
The scene between you and Sarah on the phone is great. You ask how you’ll fit into their plan, and she doesn’t have a great answer. And there’s just a little flicker of awareness on your face.
Yea maybe that’s when it all comes to light. Because she might very well have put it a different way and he would’ve gone along with it.
Talk to me about filming that last scene. [Director] Mark Mylod had a really interesting comment in the post-show about not “finding” the ending, meaning the final image, until several takes in.
We did a few different versions of it. There were a couple where I was away from Sarah, and some where I came up to her. It was quite loose, as [filming] often is. It seemed to make sense that she had seen me with Logan and the others hadn’t. And I hadn’t seen her see me. It’s a great long scene, it’s over five minutes long I think. So I was waiting outside to come up. We did it in one [take]. It was brilliant to come into that room, with what’s hanging in the air following Logan shouting and screaming. It’s a powerful atmosphere to walk into.
This has been a stellar season for Tom, and surely for you to play. What were your and Jesse’s conversations going into this season?
We don’t have those kinds of conversations, really. The joy of the show and the joy of playing Tom is just the quality of the writing. And it’s been like this since the pilot. I have great trust in the writers and we’re all like fans, we can’t wait to read the next episode and see what they come with. We get the episodes sometimes a few days before we start shooting. As an actor you cannot play a character arc, you play moment by moment and you have faith in the director and the writer to look after the character’s journey in that way. I do, anyway.
And to that end, immediately thinking back to Tom’s past scenes with Kendall and Greg, the foreshadowing of this moment was laid out very carefully.
Yup, exactly. It’s a difficult thing to do longform TV. You can’t play the journey of the whole season, you go in increments. If you do know what’s going to happen, you don’t want to telegraph it. But you need to be slightly aware of it. You trust in the showrunner to make sure the beats are being hit.
How fun has it been to play Tom’s spiral?
I can honestly say, hand on heart, that there hasn’t been a scene since we started doing this show that I haven’t really enjoyed and relished and adored. It’s such fun. And it’s not just fun, it’s interesting and weird and odd, like people are. That’s the real skill of the writing and the story. It’s not black and white, it’s odd. They’re repellent and sympathetic at the same time. We don’t know what we feel and what we want, and it’s ok for the characters not to either. It helps when you work with a wonderful cast and crew, the crew are the same since when we started. So there’s a lovely continuity, it feels like a big company.
It’s not every week that you get to flip a desk over [in episode seven, when Tom celebrates avoiding prison by trashing Greg’s office].
It’s not. And it was very therapeutic. The stage directions were, Tom destroys Greg’s office. So as an actor you’re like, OK, wonderful, here we go.
Should we empathize with Tom? After all, he’s really only in this terrible marriage because of his own fascination with wealth and prestige, right?
They’re all human—[as a viewer] you probably find less to align yourself with with someone like Logan. But I think it’s OK to empathize with them, that’s what makes them human and real, I suppose. Otherwise they’re just caricatures.
A major Tom highlight this season was the Nero and Sporus monologue. It feels like this season the relationship between Tom and Greg has been more bizarre than ever, with even more humor, tension, maybe even a splash of homoerotic tension…
[laughs] It’s fascinating what people project onto Tom and Greg. They have a symbiotic relationship—they need each other, Tom’s sort of on shaky ground. He’s always on shaky ground. Greg is somebody he can try to dominate and push around, but also he really likes him. It’s a really fascinating relationship. Nic and I, we don’t decide how to play the scene. We just jump in and have fun with it. So the colors that come out, they’re not worked out [in advance]. It’s wonderful working with him, because there’s so much going on with those two in between the lines.
Also when we’re talking highlights, I’m not sure if you know, but “I got a dick the size of a red sequoia and I fuck like a bullet train” was a big hit.
[laughs] The best thing about that was [in one take], after I say “I fuck like a bullet train,” Nick ad-libs “Yea? Prove it.” [And as] Tom [I go], “What?” Such a beautiful Greg line, he always has to have a rejoinder, get the last word. We had real trouble, me and Nic, in the Compliments Tunnel. It took eight or nine takes, maybe, to get through that without laughing. It was really difficult.
Now that we’re three seasons in, a comment that’s often made about the show is that the kids are all trapped in loops of trying to please Dad, lashing out at Dad. And the person we see finally break their loop is not one of the kids, but Tom.
Yes. It’s exciting, especially for where it might go. And I have no idea where it might go. I’ve never been part of any discussion yet—I’m not sure Jesse and the writers know where it’s going to go either. I don’t know when they will start up the room again, in January probably.
In that case, let’s put it out there: Where do you hope Tom goes?
[Laughs] I don’t know, is the truthful answer. And I actually don’t mind. I don’t feel proprietary about it.
I would imagine it could be fun to play a Tom that’s potentially more villainous, more assertive.
Whatever they give me, I’ll jump in.