As I wait for Joel Kinnaman to enter our Zoom, a name I don’t recognize pops up in the waiting room. The camera turns on and the Suicide Squad star is reclining on a white couch in a Malibu home wearing a loose black t-shirt by É Nóis, a Brazilian jiu jitsu clothing brand. When I ask him about the alter ego he uses on his Zoom profile and while booking hotels — think: a WWF heel or ’80s action hero — he smiles and says, “That is a secret that has to remain a secret.”
After grabbing the attention of American audiences with his portrayal of the hard-living, hangdog Detective Holder on AMC’s Scandi-noir homage The Killing, Kinnaman broke into big-budget Hollywood in an ’80s action reboot: 2014’s RoboCop. He’d spent years studying at the Stockholm Academy of Dramatic Arts and then starring in critically adored plays and films in Sweden, and was still green when it came to the blockbuster media apparatus.
“I was doing some press for The Killing and I got my first question regarding RoboCop. I didn’t know what I was stepping into fresh off the boat from Sweden,” Kinnaman says, a grin peeking through his blond goatee. “This reporter asked me, ‘Is RoboCop gonna be R-rated?’ And I was like, ‘Of course it’s gonna be R-rated! Only a fucking idiot would make RoboCop PG-13.’ Then, I woke up the next morning with like 42 missed calls.”
Kinnaman’s second venture into the world of franchise moviemaking was even more calamitous. He landed a leading role as military hero Rick Flag in Suicide Squad, DC’s offbeat, anti-Avengers bad-guy teamup flick helmed by David Ayer (End of Watch). The stacked cast and hugely popular trailer created untenably high expectations for Warner Bros. After underwhelming test screenings, the studio panicked, going so far as to bring in the company behind the viral teaser to recut the film. The whole disastrous production was chronicled in a Hollywood Reporter feature that ran right before the wide release. “Everyone was so hyped because of that trailer, but the trailer wasn’t really representative of what the movie was. That’s not the tone that the movie had,” Kinnaman says. “So, they tried to change the film to be more like the trailer and then they just went down a rabbit hole.”
Suicide Squad was panned by critics and comic-book fans alike. Though it grossed nearly $750 million at the box office, it seemed as though it’d spell the end of the series. But then, Guardians of the Galaxy director James Gunn was fired by Disney over resurfaced offensive tweets and Warner Bros. gave Gunn carte blanche to take on any DC property. He chose the Suicide Squad, penning and directing something between a reboot and a sequel: The raunchy, technicolored, hard-R The Suicide Squad. Kinnaman returns to reprise his original role, along with Margot Robbie (Harley Quinn), Viola Davis (Amanda Waller), and Jai Courtney (Captain Boomerang).
Kinnaman wasn’t marked by the critical failure of the first Suicide Squad, save for the left bicep ‘SKWAD’ tattoo Will Smith gave him on set, which peeks out every time he rustles his short blonde hair during our call. Along with the sure-to-be-much-more-beloved The Suicide Squad (it already has great reviews), Kinnaman also plays Uzo Aduba’s boyfriend in HBO’s 2021 continuation of In Treatment and astronaut Edward Baldwin in Apple TV’s underrated For All Mankind. He’s currently filming For All Mankind‘s third season.
The 41-year-old actor has come a long way since that first RoboCop interview. But as we talk about being “the Brad Pitt of Sweden,” big budget fiascos, and auditioning to be Thor, it’s clear that after seven years in Hollywood IP Land, Kinnaman is still just as unvarnished.
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Were you wary to dive back into that world after the rough release and reception of the first Suicide Squad?
I don’t know how much you know about the details of Hollywood financing and foreign sales models, but especially for independently financed movies, the casting decisions are based around how successful you have been monetarily in different areas of the world. So, Suicide Squad did me some real good, because it was a financial hit — had it been [released] in China, it probably would have been a billion-dollar movie. But creatively, it was not what we thought we made while we were doing it. You can see in the editing that there were a lot of conflicting visions on the screen. We re-shot the ending twice, and never quite got it right.
So, we wanted to change the feel of what the Suicide Squad is. There were a couple of iterations of the potential sequel — a couple of directors that jumped on board and were developing scripts — and I think they were back into that sort of conflicting vision. The executives at Warner Bros. and the new director that came in — it wasn’t jelling 100 percent. But then, because of Disney fucking up and firing James [Gunn], we got the best guy in the space. Warner Bros. was like, ‘Hey, you can do whatever you want. Take any DC property that you want and do whatever you want with it.’ And he decided to take on Suicide Squad.
When I got sent the first version of the script, I was like, ‘Wow, this is what it should be. This is the tone. This is the irreverence. This is the fucking lunacy.’ And it was very close to what the movie ended up being. That’s how clear the vision was from day one.
I’m always fascinated by these superhero properties. Some people are able to bring their personality into the machine and others are kind of filed down to fit. How much of James Gunn’s power stems from his ability to keep his hands on the wheel?
Yeah, it’s more than anything I’ve ever seen. It’s to the point where he gets to do exactly what he wants. A lot of directors, if they reached James’s position, then you would see the ego growing, and when they have all the power, it’d start to get to their head. But that’s just not who James is.
I don’t know how big the budget was — if it was over $200 million or something like that — but it was the film with the biggest construction builds in the history of Warner Bros. So, that says a lot. But we did not do one hour of overtime. We did not do one day of reshoots. That never happens! They usually build in a two-week reshoot period on these films, just because they like to go back after the first edit and fix things. But that was never talked about here, because the vision was so clear.
I was reading a Daily Beast profile from 2017 where The Killing showrunner Veena Sud said: “They said, ‘There’s this Swedish actor, he’s the Brad Pitt of Sweden. He’s phenomenal, and he’s put himself on tape.'” What was it like to be the Brad Pitt of Sweden?
Well, I can tell you, I did not view myself as the Brad Pitt of Sweden. [laughs]
Well, what made you want to come out to the States to try to make it in TV and Hollywood?
I graduated from the national theater school in 2007. I had this monologue that I was doing on stage and then one of the best Swedish playwrights wrote a complete new modernization of Crime and Punishment. I got Raskolnikov. It was actually the opening of a new national theatre, and it was this massive production — like, three hours and 40 minutes and I never left the stage. I realized that I came out of the gate from theater school hitting the pinnacle of Swedish theater. It didn’t have so much to do with my performance, but with that playwright, I just hit lightning in a bottle.
After that, I got a lot of really interesting film work in Sweden. At that point, I’d done one or two films but had never done a lead role yet. But then, I had this crazy run in Sweden where I did nine features in 16 months and I played the lead in six of them. One of them was Easy Money which was the big movie of the year in Sweden and became one of those generational films. I hadn’t really planned to go to the States, but things just went so much better than I ever had expected. So, I was trying to figure out, ‘How do I raise the bar?’ It felt like the natural thing was to move to the States.
During all this, I got an audition for Thor. When they were casting the first Thor movie, they obviously went all around the world. Scandinavia was a natural place for, uh – [grinning] you know, it’s such bullshit that Chris Hemsworth gets to play Thor. If there is ever a case of cultural appropriation, that is it! I mean, he lives in a tropical paradise. He doesn’t have any understanding of the cold and the pain that we go through on a daily basis. It is such bullshit. I don’t understand why more Swedish and Scandinavian people aren’t more outraged by this clear case of cultural appropriation! Like, all us 6’3″ white guys aren’t the same! [laughs] This is bullshit!
So, then I had to wait until I could get into my comic book adventure. And then what do I get? Rick Flag?!? It sounds like one of the guys that stormed the Capitol! You know? I’m still very bitter about Thor. Very bitter.
As you should be! I read that you spent a year as a trouble-making exchange student in Del Valle, Texas. How did that year change you? How did it shape your view of America?
My real understanding of America comes from the fact that my father is American. But he has a very unique journey. He deserted from the Vietnam War, went on the run in Laos for five years, and then ultimately ended up in Sweden. He’s a person that left everything behind and took a very strong political stance against American foreign policy. So that’s what I grew up with.
But I had this urge and longing to reconnect with my American side. So, I went as an exchange student, and it was a really difficult thing, because I ended up with this super kooky family that should not have had any exchange students. I was later saved by my American football coach and I was able to stay with his family. Living in Texas for a year really made me understand the different sides of America.
You played Texas high school football? That’s about as American as it gets.
Well, I was the kicker…. but I broke the school record!
Did it feel Friday Night Lights-ish?
One hundred percent! I love that show so much. I felt like I lived that. When you play football in a poor school in America, you really feel the class struggle in America, and how much there is at stake. That’s something that I didn’t understand, because where I come from, you don’t pay for college. It’s free. All you need to do is achieve academically and you get admitted. You actually get paid by the government to go to university if you get admitted. You get a grant from the state, so you don’t have to take a second job. So you can focus on your studies.
God, that hurts to hear. That’s so clearly how it should be out in America.
It really is how it should be. America absolutely can afford that. And what is a better investment than investing in the education of the youth?
There were several instances where if teammates failed this test, then they would not play the last three games of the season and they would not get their scholarship, which could take them out of their impoverished situation. Their chance of breaking the cycle of poverty in their family would be gone.
It was like their whole lives just came down to this moment. I was really struck by how much was at stake and how few second chances there were.
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Over the last decade, you’ve played cops, astronauts, and comic book heroes. It’s a very throwback action hero oeuvre and it follows in a long tradition of non-American actors filling that all-American leading man role. Did you ever expect that career arc for yourself?
Not really. When I came from Sweden, I was such an art guy. I’d gone five years in the national theater school, and then I’d been in the theater afterwards. I was in these avant garde theater circles, and then I started making movies, but it was European art house cinema in many ways. So, I think that was sort of my identity.
But then as things went along here, I really started to fall in love with this other side. Personally, I love blockbuster movies as much as a smart independent or European art house movie. One night I’ll feel like watching one and one night I’ll feel like watching the other. I wanted to match the movies that I make to the movies that I want to see. So, that had to be both.
But I had a lot more work to do to get into the action space. It took me a few years to really fall in love with the physical side of it. Now I’m obsessed with it. I train for movies, even when I’m not doing movies — it’s just become my hobby. I train martial arts and different kinds of fighting several times a week just for fun, because I feel like it makes me a better person. So, I really enjoy doing those kinds of films because I love working with stunt guys. I love getting to prepare for those things. I love that process. Being able to do my own stunts and be part of creating fight sequences — I find that really creative as well.
I’m hoping that I’m going to be able to stand with one foot in each camp. I would love to be able to do my own action franchises and, at the same time, be a part of interesting ensemble films with auteur directors. That’s how my dream career would look.
Since the premiere of The Killing in 2011, you’ve gone from the tall and lanky Detective Holder to Rick Flag, who’s nearly John Cena superhero jacked—
I’m like the Russian doll version of John Cena.
[Laughs] And you’ve gone from gloomy Seattle lighting to pop art James Gunn lighting. What would 2010 Joel Kinnaman think of 2021 Joel Kinnaman?
He’d be like, ‘You fucking sellout.’ And then I would smack my 30-year-old self. [laughs] I’d be like, ‘Shut the fuck up. You don’t know what you’re talking about.’